Subwoofer Integration

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Thelemonk
Posts: 5
Joined: 19 Dec 2019 11:20

Subwoofer Integration

Post by Thelemonk » 30 Jul 2020 10:39

Hello, everyone,

currently I am trying to integrate two subwoofers into my stereo system. I bypass the bass management of the subwoofers and realize this with AcouratePro, AcourateConvolver and my Fireface UFX 2. The subwoofers are located asymmetrically in the corners of the room.

My previous approach:
Creation of 2-way XO filters 80Hz
Implementation in AcourateConvolver
Performing a measurement at the listening position to create the Pulse48L/R file
Execution Room Macros
Convolution (decomposition) of the correction file with the XO filters (result Cor1L48/Cor2L48....)

Assumption: Cor1L48 + Cor2L48 corresponds to the original Cor1L created via the macros (over all measurement Sub+Main).

Question: Is the assumption/procedure conclusive in itself?
Which alternative procedure would be advisable?
(Yes there are Problems ;-)

With kind regards
Thelemonk
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Labdoc
Posts: 95
Joined: 19 Oct 2019 19:11

Re: Subwoofer Integration

Post by Labdoc » 30 Jul 2020 15:49

Hi Thelemonk,
Your setup is like mine: 2 mains and 2 (stereo) subs.

Of course, the initial measurements for Pulse 48L/R are done with the XO in the logsweep filter (no implementation of AcourateConvolver yet in the procedure). You get Cor1L48.dbl, Cor1R48.dbl, Cor2L48.dbl and Cor2R48.dbl. Your assumption comparing this to the single-way logsweep is correct, you get only Cor1L48, Cor1R48

In my case, the subs are a meter further away from the LP than the main speakers. So, the time alignment of subs and mains makes a difference. This is not an alternative procedure, but an additional one.
Murray
Acourate/AConvolver on Win 11x64 > Thunderbolt > RME UFXplus (as DAC/preamp) > Balanced cable > Wyred4Sound SX1000 Icepower mono amps > ATC SCM50PSLT and stereo JL Audio F113 subs
Thelemonk
Posts: 5
Joined: 19 Dec 2019 11:20

Re: Subwoofer Integration

Post by Thelemonk » 31 Jul 2020 17:50

Hello, Murray,

thanks for your feedback. I have adapted the "disassembly procedure" and it now works without any errors. The sum of the decomposition matches the correction files created by the Room Macros.

I will try out your procedure and put the XO's into a multi way filter and install it in the Logsweep Recorder. I had not used this option before. I will report.

Many greetings
Thelemonk
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Labdoc
Posts: 95
Joined: 19 Oct 2019 19:11

Re: Subwoofer Integration

Post by Labdoc » 31 Jul 2020 19:29

Good luck.
I highly recommend Mitch Barnett's book, Accurate Sound Reproduction by DSP on Amazon Kindle. CAD$10.
Murray
Acourate/AConvolver on Win 11x64 > Thunderbolt > RME UFXplus (as DAC/preamp) > Balanced cable > Wyred4Sound SX1000 Icepower mono amps > ATC SCM50PSLT and stereo JL Audio F113 subs
Thelemonk
Posts: 5
Joined: 19 Dec 2019 11:20

Re: Subwoofer Integration

Post by Thelemonk » 07 Aug 2020 18:10

Hello, everyone,

the Multi Way Filter has been successfully tested. Measuring is now also possible without a Convolver.

In the book by Mitch Barnett I especially looked at the chapter "Loudspeaker Driver Linearization". One could consider the combination Sub/Main as a 2 driver system and treat it according to the procedure described in the chapter.

I just wonder if this approach leads to the goal here.
In my case I would like to do a measurement of the listening position in addition to the sub/main integration. Here, the room plays the main acoustic role, which is practically irrelevant for a "Driver Linearization".

I have created a full range listening position correction for each of the Main (3 way, active) using the Room Macros. Then the folding of the CorL/F with the high pass was done. So far so good.

The subs were measured up to 300Hz at the listening position, linearized as described in the book and folded with the low pass. The Room Macros were not used. Isn't the phase correction carried out in macro 4 missing? Or am I wrong here?
How would the phase correction be performed in this case?

Best regards
Thelemonk
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UliBru
Posts: 433
Joined: 19 Oct 2019 13:58

Re: Subwoofer Integration

Post by UliBru » 07 Aug 2020 18:13

Why don't you use a 4-way XO for speakers + subwoofer(s)?
Stay well tuned
Uli

Moderator
Acourate system: JRiver/Roon -> AcourateConvolver -> miniDSP U-DIO8 -> TacT M/S2150 amps -> DIY horn speakers
Thelemonk
Posts: 5
Joined: 19 Dec 2019 11:20

Re: Subwoofer Integration

Post by Thelemonk » 07 Aug 2020 20:00

Hi Uli,

this is a misunderstanding. The Mains are active three ways with a built-in, analogue crossover which is not bypassed here. For the Mains (O410) only a listening position correction is created (via the 1-4 room macros) and folded with the high pass. Then there is basically the catch.

The question is, how do I get a SubCorXO filter with (Excess?) phase correction that includes the room response. I can't work with the room macros here.

Many greetings
Thelemonk
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UliBru
Posts: 433
Joined: 19 Oct 2019 13:58

Re: Subwoofer Integration

Post by UliBru » 07 Aug 2020 20:44

Simply create a 2-way XO for subs + speakers.
Then create a multiway wav from the XO files.
Run the logsweep measurement at the listening position.
Use the macros as usual. Macro4 will automatically include the XOs and calculate the proper Cor filters. That's it.
Stay well tuned
Uli

Moderator
Acourate system: JRiver/Roon -> AcourateConvolver -> miniDSP U-DIO8 -> TacT M/S2150 amps -> DIY horn speakers
Thelemonk
Posts: 5
Joined: 19 Dec 2019 11:20

Re: Subwoofer Integration

Post by Thelemonk » 28 Aug 2020 14:59

Hello everyone,

now finally the penny has dropped. I had no idea that Uli would spoil us so much and that Macro 4 would do the cutting automatically.
This simplifies and speeds up the iterations for filter creation enormously.
Great, thanks a lot for that.

Many greetings
Thelemonk
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